Hulver's site || The fall of the Berlin Wall.

Diaries
Everything
Who's Online?
FAQ / Help

The fall of the Berlin Wall.

By dark nowhere (Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 07:43:16 AM EST) (all tags)

or: how I developed a sense of optimism.

In a recent diary, I'd mentioned that I'd acquired an early sense of optimism about the world because of a sense of progress that I'd been exposed to while growing up in the '80s. Metatone had questioned this, and I responded without really providing any specifics.

For a few days I wondered what they might be, because they certainly weren't available to me at the time. Worse, the more I thought about the history of the time, society on the global scale had established a steady downhill pace, and I wondered where this sense could possibly have come from, had I wholly misunderstood the global environment at the time?

The truth is, the cold war was wrapping itself up in the eighties. I didn't fully understand why it was put up, but when the Berlin Wall was being dismantled I did fully understand what it meant.

I didn't exist when Kennedy was shot, but I do remember exactly where I was when the Berlin Wall fell. I think that says a lot.

How could I not understand what it meant? I saw the footage of people who probably didn't fully understand why it had to be erected in the first place, camped at the recently ruined wall, glad for all the world that this wall was going down. I understood there was a kind of war, and I understood in that a priori kind of way how war is bad for the people. No other piece of world news evokes memories that vividly from so long ago.

The '80s was a festive decade. The '90s started out that way and got kind of cold. I think I'm talking about the performance arts, particularly music and music videos, but it's clearly bled into politics since. The coolness of the era has given way to cold and eventually frigidity. I think we've become afraid of being ourselves because of fear of scrutiny. To get the larger market and the larger collection voter we have to appeal to the most by contradicting the ideals of the least.

There's no progress in that. In 1980 we were willing to risk making mistakes. Now we simply fail to do anything else.

< Photo Friday: Beach | BBC White season: 'Rivers of Blood' >

Login

Related Links

- a recent diary
- had questioned
- dark nowhere's Diary

Google

Comment Controls

The fall of the Berlin Wall. | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback

Tiananmen by blixco (3.00 / 3) #1 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 08:26:17 AM EST

was the first time I realized how much I believed in people. It was also the first time I became distraught over the actions of a government (rather than just upset or cynical).

I kept every newspaper clipping I could get my hands on, even stole an internet connection to get more info.

When the Chinese government swept the protesters away under a rug, bodies and all, I felt like I was watching the 1960s devolve. It was a brutal set of lessons.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin

Good point. by dark nowhere (4.00 / 1) #3 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 08:55:37 AM EST

1989 was quite the year, huh?

I think it might have been the kind of wake I expected from these events rather than what occurs, and the promise seemed to persist for a while. By the time the incident happened in Tiananmen, I'd accepted that China was in an awful state and that since the momentary breakdown of what I'd call a cold regime gave pause to the world, it would surely give pause to China. But apparently not. Things have changed for the better in China in some ways since then, but hardly what I'd expected. I'll admit to vast naivety regarding China at that time.

I am not your dupe account.
[ Parent ]

: Just to add to this . . . by slozo (3.00 / 3) #8 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 10:37:49 AM EST

. . . one of the last prisoners of this incident was recently released (it was given the briefest of mentions in the west).
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2007/08/10/888901-tiananmen-protest-prisoner-released
The Party had to water down many of the sentences, for fear of an even harder public backlash. Although the response was still typically harsh, the protest certainly had an effect . . .

[ Parent ]

Tiananmen by ucblockhead (4.00 / 2) #7 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 10:22:09 AM EST

I took time off work and spent most of those few days watching CNN.
----
_{ウセーバラケダ}
[ Parent ]

The 1980's sucked by theboz (4.00 / 3) #2 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 08:45:00 AM EST

You're talking about the era of Ronald Reagan, brick cellphones, the AIDS crisis, hair bands, and consumerism run rampant. The 90's did have an overabundance of sarcasm and negativity, but at least people seemed to think.
- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n

I see you and I'll raise you by dark nowhere (2.00 / 0) #4 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 09:24:54 AM EST

Regan was funnier to laugh at than Bush is, AIDS is still a crisis¹ but we don't care because cancer's worse in terms of liklihood. Some of those hair bands really knew how to rock out (and I haven't heard much in the way of new rock since the '80s that's actually respectable. Plus they've cut their crazy bangs already.)

About people thinking, there's definitely a more critical bent to our thinking for sure. A lack of creativity might be a big problem though. Analysis is only a filter, and if there's nothing good to run through it, the filter is useless. I'd say that either we have too strong a filter or not enough to run through it because there's little real world progress to show for all this thinking. Unless your iPhone keeps you and yours healthy, I mean.

I know what you're saying. The '80s wasn't a perfect decade by any means. I just have the feeling we're lost something of specific importance since then. Yes, now we know for example that you can't run green on solar power without some serious advances, and I am grateful that we know that.

I hope we gain the optimism we need to press forward soon after we develop the technological expertise we need to have the kind of empowerment to realize yesterday's vision. Yes, it was a naive time. Hopefully that the spirit I saw returns with a more steady and critical pace.

1: Consider this: there are about ~40 million living in the US with AIDS. 2.9 million have died of it in 2006, and 4.3 million have been newly infected. This is only slightly below the population growth (according to the CIA world factbook.) Source: http://data.unaids.org/pub/EpiReport/2006/2006_EpiUpdate_en.pdf

I am not your dupe account.
[ Parent ]

I don't have optimism for this nation by theboz (4.00 / 1) #11 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 12:14:34 PM EST

I think we're on the verge of collapse. I didn't think that until fairly recently, but that's what I think. There is always hope though, I have guarded optimism, but I don't know how it could work. Both political parties are making things worse and bringing about the collapse of the nation. The Republicans are doing it faster, but the Democrats just go along slowly with them.
- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
[ Parent ]

thinking we're on the verge of collapse by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #18 Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 02:34:10 PM EST

is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

: How so? by theboz (2.00 / 0) #27 Mon Aug 20, 2007 at 08:38:34 AM EST

If I had the kind of power to control the fate of the nation (other than the vote, which is a joke at present since my vote almost never counts) I would think positively. However, I don't have that power, so I have no control over what's happening.
- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
[ Parent ]

Heh. by blixco (4.00 / 1) #5 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 09:36:46 AM EST

Arguments can be made against any decade as being good or bad, but the 80s did have that whole "end of the Soviet Union" thing. The cold war...the preparation for nuclear death...was in place for 40-ish years, and drove our economy, our policy, and our way of life. It shaped us in every way, from postwar recovery in Europe and America to the war in Vietnam and the scary economics and brutally simplistic mindset of Ronnie Raygun. Many of us lost sleep over the years wondering how soon we'd be annihilated in nuclear fire, or worse, actually survive a nuclear holocaust.

Pop culture and greed are easy to be distracted by, but the real events, the death of the Soviet and the rise of the Reagan figurehead (our own little cult of personality, starting there, through Clinton, and now W) were by far more significant than any cultural issues. We created this modern myth of America under the Reagan shell, and we're still acting the part he invented.

The 80s were significant. The 90s were a bizarre reaction to that significance, a sort of "what's next?" And so far, this is what's next: war, and rumors of war.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

nuclear holocaust by Merekat (4.00 / 2) #6 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 10:17:49 AM EST

The first time I can remember that as a conscious fear was the invasion of Iraq after the invasion of Kuwait, strongly influenced by my mother not letting us play outside for a day or two after the Chernobyl incident (which I did not fully understand at the time).

I used to go to sleep wondering how long, slow and painful the death of humanity would be for those not caught in the initial blasts.

[ Parent ]

That's the problem by theboz (4.00 / 1) #10 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 12:12:38 PM EST

Pop culture and greed are easy to be distracted by, but the real events, the death of the Soviet and the rise of the Reagan figurehead (our own little cult of personality, starting there, through Clinton, and now W) were by far more significant than any cultural issues. We created this modern myth of America under the Reagan shell, and we're still acting the part he invented.

Reagan was one of the worst presidents we've ever had. He laid the foundation of dismantling social programs and boosted spending on useless "defense" mechanisms further. He claimed to win the cold war, despite the fact that the U.S.S.R. collapsed due to their own stupidity more than anything to do with the U.S. He invaded sovereign nations that didn't cooperate with U.S. corporations, and he armed terrorists. He threw homeless people in the street.

Ronald Reagan was a symptom of the narcissism and anti-intellectualism that surged through the 80's which was in response to the 60's style free thinking and social thought. Reagan symbolized all that was wrong with the 80's. He was a good actor and smiled a lot, meanwhile he was screwing everything up. The American people didn't care because they were tired of thinking and being intellectual. They were tired of helping others and became selfish and inwardly focused. This is what the "greed" I had mentioned was about. Not just consumerism, but the ability to look at your fellow American, suffering, and blame them for their pain with no conscience.

The 90's were a reaction to the 80's in that people realized how things were fucked up in the 80's culture. We were not really sure what to do about it, but we knew it was wrong and rejected the establishment. This went all the way through to music which is why Alternative became a new genre when in reality it was mostly rock. The 90's were a very weak, darker shadow of the 60's, but we were trying to deal with some of the same issues.

After 2001, we became much more like the 80's, but probably worse. We are on a path to self-destruction, that's what lies ahead.
- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
[ Parent ]

scary by alprazolam (4.00 / 1) #14 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 05:51:00 PM EST

I didn't realize how similarly we felt about the 80s v 90s although I knew it would be close. Willfull ignorance, that's what links us now to the 80's, only we know now that we should know better already..

[ Parent ]

IAWTP. by toxicfur (4.00 / 1) #16 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 06:27:12 PM EST

I remember in the 6th grade my teacher telling us that we were lucky, living near Ft. Bragg and Camp Lejeune - we would likely be in the initial nuclear blast. I was terrified, but stoic. It's just what was going to happen - too bad I'd never have the opportunity to learn to drive. Reagan terrified me, even when I was a small child. I was one of three kids in my school in the 8th grade who voted for Dukakis in our mock election; everyone else was voting for Bush I as if we had to stay on Ronnie's path.

I guess what I'm saying is that the 80s terrified me in a way that overshadowed any positive things that happened. In '92, I voted for Clinton and I was so optimistic that good things would happen, that the country would turn around, and that we wouldn't have to be afraid anymore. It was good while it lasted.
-----
If you don't get a Bonnie, my universe will not make sense. --blixco
[ Parent ]

: i can sorta see that by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #20 Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 02:37:45 PM EST

the mid-80s were terrifying.
but the period of 1989-1991 was a period of unparalleled optimism for me, and I think for much of the world. the evil empire fell. it fell from within because its people stood up and said, fuck no, we're not gonna take it, we've got to fight for our right to party.
apartheid, one of the most evil systems in the world, collapsed. it collapsed because the rest of the world said, you've got to stop, and made it stick.
both showed that people can achieve change. we can make things better. it's not cheap, and it's not easy, and sometimes it requires thirty years of struggle, but ... the deck isn't so stacked that the good guys can never win.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

so how do we get off of that path? by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #19 Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 02:35:32 PM EST

or are content to march down it?

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

: Education and logic by theboz (2.00 / 0) #28 Mon Aug 20, 2007 at 08:40:35 AM EST

I think the two biggest problems we face as a nation are ignorance and fear. The only cures to those are education and logic. It starts off as simple as that. Seriously, think up any of the hot debates today and you can find either a solution or a path to the solution by critical thinking with the right information to make a good decision.
- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
[ Parent ]

We had the Berlin Wall in the 80's . . . by slozo (4.00 / 1) #9 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 10:55:14 AM EST

. . . now, we have the apartheid wall:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier

The more things change, the more they stay the same . . .

i think that's unfair. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #21 Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 02:39:53 PM EST

it's not like west germans were running into east germany to blow people up, like palestinians run into israel to blow people up. nor is it as if the israelis and the palestinians are one people, the way the germans were. nor is the wall being built by one government for the purpose of trapping its own citizens within the wall.

i don't like the situation in israel-palestine, but i think the wall may be one of the best things to happen there in a long time: it allows the two societies to seperate from one another. that's a terrible long term plan ... but in the short-term, maybe fences do make good neighbors.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

It is unfair. The situation . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #23 Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 03:20:17 PM EST

. . . in the middle east is even worse, in my opinion.

You are describing effects as if they were causes, in my mind . . . as a people dispossessed of their land (Palestinians) are, in my opinion, allowed to want it back. It's not like the east germans bulldozed down communities, bombed random targets under the guise of fighting terrorism, and kept the west germans under hard military, social and economic controls. We both realise the situation is not as simple as what you or I describe; however, we both know whose side the propoganda (news) is coming from.

It is sad to hear you say a wall that has been as destructive (in my mind) as the berlin wall in terms of going through towns and diving a people is a good idea . . .

[ Parent ]

: corr.-dividing a people (nt) by slozo (2.00 / 0) #24 Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 03:22:13 PM EST

[ Parent ]
: the implementation by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #26 Sun Aug 19, 2007 at 12:41:16 AM EST

the implementation could be better; certainly israel's choice of where to seat the wall is often problematic.
but i think ten years out the situation for the majority in both countries will be improved by the presence of a wall. a different wall might be better, but a bad wall is probably better than no wall.
this is one of those cases where all available options suck; there is no good option to choose, just varying flavors of less bad.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

I think a lot depends on... by Metatone (2.00 / 0) #12 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 02:51:01 PM EST

whether your formative moments were in the early eighties or late eighties. For me, it was the early eighties and things didn't look so rosy. Of course, living in North Soviet UKia, 84-85 was the miner's strike, which was the beginning of large economic decline and a mass migration out of the area.

Being less parochial for a moment, Gorbachev's uskoreniye/glasnost/perestroika only began in 85 as I recall. Certainly here the early eighties was dominated by the feeling that "someone might press the wrong button by mistake" followed by the feeling that "now Reagan has Star Wars to protect his ass he might push the button on purpose and we'll get the return fire."

being born in '78 by alprazolam (2.00 / 0) #15 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 05:54:23 PM EST

I never once felt an ounce of fear regarding USSR v US nuclear war. It just seemed to stupid, with MAD and all, to believe anybody would be willing to do it. I fear "rogue nations" moreso (in particular N. Korea, rather than Iran).

OTOH I work with a guy (older) that admitted the other day that he just plain hates Russians, still. I can't even fathom that.

[ Parent ]

: you're just a few years too young. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #22 Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 02:40:50 PM EST

i was born in 73, and i remember that fear.
all too well.
it's one of the reasons i think the terrorism fears today are overblown. dude, when i was a kid, i worried about the entire world being obliterated in an instant. what are a few terrorists going to do to compare?

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

The little details by Vulch (2.00 / 0) #13 Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 04:44:27 PM EST

It's some of the peripheral details I remember about events then. Film of Egon Krenz watching East Germans crossing into the west and realising he'd been left deep in the brown and smelly by Honecker and that he could probably stop it but only at a huge cost. Watching the Emergency Committee making statements during the Gorbachev coup and seeing the spokesmans hands were shaking so badly he couldn't hide it. Odd bits like that.

the birth of idealism by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #17 Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 02:33:21 PM EST

The Berlin Wall falling, the collapse of the Soviet Union, the appearance of freedom in Eastern Europe; and then, a few months after, the end of apartheid ... it was an amazing, optimistic, incredible time.

I think many Americans miss that because it wasn't about us; but, really, my sense that the world can be made better, that if we work hard enough we can achieve our goals even though the power of the state be amassed against us, comes entirely from that time.

It was breathtaking. It was amazing. And it can happen again if we commit outselves to making it happen.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

: Exactly it. by dark nowhere (2.00 / 0) #25 Sat Aug 18, 2007 at 06:52:34 PM EST

I think I was young enough to be impressed by it, in the way that made me think "this is what the world's like."
The history I had at the time said times before were terrible for most people because of the way things were. A lot of changes were happening in 1989 - everybody had a television but only programmers and kids really wanted computers in their homes (I was a more or less both -- still am, just more of one and less of the other.) So it was a bit of a simple conclusion for me that social progress though technology is the way things were going.
The two have been decoupled, and the market pitted technology against the wallet, and so while we technically have flying cars, there's only one and nobody can have it.

I am not your dupe account.
[ Parent ]

The fall of the Berlin Wall. | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback